In a span of 25 hours, encounters with Los Angeles police officers resulted in the deaths of three men of color. Could a change in tactics long asked for by activists have prevented them?
In a span of 25 hours, three men of color died after encounters with Los Angeles police officers. Could a change in tactics long asked for by activists have prevented the deaths?
Today, we talk about the incidents, the aftermath — and what’s next. Read the full transcript here.
Host: Gustavo Arellano
Guests: L.A. Times investigative crime reporter Richard Winton and L.A. Times metro columnist Erika D. Smith
More reading:
Column: MLK had a dream about ending police brutality. In L.A., we’re clearly still dreaming
LAPD’s repeated tasing of teacher who died appears excessive, experts say
Amid concerns over three deaths, LAPD releases video
Gustavo Arellano: Just a heads-up, this episode includes disturbing audio that documents men who died after encounters with police.
Keenan Anderson clip: “They tried to kill me! Melo.” “Hey, stop. I'm gonna tase you.” “Melo, Melo tried to kill me. Get this on YouTube. Help!” “Stop, I’m gonna tase you” “Yes, sir. Get off me! Help! Help!”
Gustavo Arellano: In the summer of 2020, after huge protests in the wake of George Floyd's murder, law enforcement agencies across the United States vowed to implement wide-scale reforms. Bias and sensitivity trainings. More use of body cams and deescalation tactics. Even a ban on chokeholds to subdue people.
One of those agencies was the Los Angeles Police Department. Its history of brutality is well-documented and goes back decades, but current Police Chief Michel Moore vowed to create a better Police Department for these times.
Patrisse Cullors (vigil): Every community member who said Black lives matter in 2013 and 2014 and 2015 and 2016 and 2017…
But the LAPD is under fire again.
And 2020. And 2021, 2022 and now 2023. If you believe that Black lives matter, if you believe that Black lives matter, then fight for my cousin.
Gustavo Arellano: In January, three men of color died after encounters with L.A. police. Footage from each incident have family members of the deceased and activists alike asking…
Vigil: Why? Why does this continue to happen to our people? Why do we continue to have to endure white supremacy and evil in those who are supposed to serve and protect us?
Gustavo Arellano: I'm Gustavo Arellano. You're listening to “The Times: Essential News from the L.A. Times.”
It’s Wednesday, January 25th, 2023.
Today: What the deaths of Keenan Anderson, Oscar Sanchez and Takar Smith mean for police reform in Los Angeles and beyond.
Gustavo Arellano: Erika D. Smith is a columnist for the Los Angeles Times who covers diversity in California. And Richard Winton is an investigative crime reporter for the Los Angeles Times. Erica, Richard, welcome to “The Times.”
Erika D. Smith: Thanks.
Richard Winton: Thank you.
Gustavo Arellano: Richard, three men died in the first week of 2023 after encounters with the LAPD, but one of them especially is getting national attention — Keenan Anderson, a teacher from the D.C. area. What happened to him?
Richard Winton: So Keenan Anderson was in a traffic accident at a big intersection in the western part of Los Angeles.
Keenan Anderson clip: Get out of the way… He's the driver.
Richard Winton: He crashes his BMW. He gets out and he's staggering around and he's walking in and out of traffic.
Keenan Anderson clip: “Get off to the side here.”
Richard Winton: And a motorcycle police officer arrives at the scene, sees him, basically starts following him on his motorcycle. Gets him onto the sidewalk. And Keenan's acting a little strange, saying someone wants to kill him.
Keenan Anderson clip: “Get on the street.” “Somebody is trying to kill me.” “Hey, stop right there. Get up against the wall.”
Richard Winton: He's acting strangely. He's kind of squatting on the sidewalk. And he stays there for several minutes, but then he suddenly bolts back into traffic.
Keenan Anderson clip: “Get down over there!” “Yes, sir. Yes, sir.” “Turn over on your stomach right now.”
Richard Winton: The motorcycle officer follows him. A swarm of other officers arrive. And then they try and take Keenan to the ground.
Keenan Anderson clip: “Get over on your stomach.” “Hold on. OK? OK. Please, please, please don't do this. Please don't do this, sir. Please… help me. Please.”
Richard Winton: And as they're doing this, one of the other officers pulls out a Taser. And he proceeds to discharge the Taser darts twice.
Keenan Anderson clip: “Turn over or I'm gonna tase you.” “Yes. I can't watch.” “Watch your elbow partner.”
Richard Winton: And eventually stun him as well, where he puts it literally on his physical body.
Keenan Anderson clip: “I'm gonna tase him.” “They’re trying to kill me. They trying to kill me. Ahhh!”
Richard Winton: At the same time, another officer is seen on the body cams of the officers, pushing Keenan down and actually using his arm, up around his neck by his collarbone, pushing him down.
Keenan Anderson clip: “Stop it! Stop it! Ahhh! Stop it!”
Richard Winton: And there are actual visual images of this. Keenan, about four hours later, after he's gone to the hospital, he dies. The cause of death, we do not know yet.
Gustavo Arellano: Footage of this has already gone online and gone far and wide, but Richard, what are policing experts saying about the tasing that's captured in that body cam video?
Richard Winton: What they're saying is that there's a number of issues with the tasing here. One is, is it excessive force? Is that force necessary or is it reasonable for them to use that much force because Keenan doesn't seem to be showing a great deal of resistance at the moment they applied a Taser here. When you initially see the Taser applied, essentially on his back or backside, and eventually sort of flipped over. But at no point, he doesn't really punch. He doesn't really kick. You see some flailing of the arms, but obviously he's being zapped at that point. The LAPD actually has a standard which says, is he an immediate threat? And so having talked to a number of policing experts, they're like, well, it's not clear that he's really a threat. The only threat was a delay. Was he really going to escape? No. There was a swarm of officers. But he was obviously delaying things and acting quite bizarre, saying some strange stuff. It was clear that his mind was, you know, altered to some extent, for some reason.
Gustavo Arellano: Erika, you talked to Keenan's family. What are they saying about the decision to tase him?
Erika D. Smith: Well, the family's pretty upset, as one might imagine. I mean, they've seen the video just like we've seen the video. And they really just don't feel that he was a threat. They think it was obvious that he was not in a sane state of mind. And they feel that the officers really just escalated the situation rather than deescalate it. So even though again the official cause of death isn't known, they believe the officers really contributed to his death if not caused his death. And so they're pretty upset about it.
Gustavo Arellano: And how are people reacting to the body cam footage of Keenan's arrest, and then the fact that he later died?
Erika D. Smith: I mean, I think it's pretty much the same. I haven't spoken to anybody who's seen that video and said, yes, this makes sense. This was a good use of police force. I think most people that I've talked to and the general reaction that I've seen online is that this has been excessive force. I mean, we've seen public officials come out and kind of say the same things. There's definitely a lot of scrutiny on this case around the LAPD and I think that most people tend to agree that this, something went wrong here.
Erika D. Smith: I mean, he was a man who grew up here in Southern California. He was a teacher. He had just moved to the D.C. area to take a job, and he was recently engaged. But before moving, he taught here in Watts for several years. He was a drama teacher. He was an English teacher. He taught 11th- and 12th-graders. He was kind of a really well-known mentor in the community here.
Erika D. Smith: He was also the cousin of Patrisse Cullors, who was one of the founders of the Black Lives movement and up until a couple of years ago, was the head of the nonprofit organization that kind of takes all the donations and gives money to activists.
Patrisse Cullors (vigil): Thank you all for coming out here today.
Erika D. Smith: One thing that came out of that was a vigil that happened over Martin Luther King Day weekend in Venice, in a parking lot at the intersection where he died.
Patrisse Cullors (vigil): I keep seeing all these ambulances. And I keep seeing the Fire Department. And I keep wondering where were they? I keep wondering why they weren't called while my cousin begged for help.
Erika D. Smith: It was pouring rain. And I think a lot of people weren't sure whether that vigil was actually going to take place or not, but it did. Hundreds of people showed up.
Vigil: So we're grateful to be joined by such a large and loving family. And we consider this rain additional libation. In the African tradition.
Erika D. Smith: I was shocked. You know, Angelenos, Southern Californians, we don't do rain very well. But people came and they stood out, with umbrellas and jackets. And there were so many people that they had to basically bring in a flatbed truck and kind of create that as a makeshift stage so people can see folks.
Patrisse Cullors (vigil): I stand in front of you on Venice and Lincoln where my cousin begged for his life, where he pleaded for his life. No human being deserves to die like that. I keep wondering why the police were there. I keep hearing his voice. I keep seeing his face: Our family's face.
Erika D. Smith: Family members spoke, Patrisse Cullors from Black Lives Matter was there. Melina Abdullah, also Black Lives Matter L.A., was there. Several pastors and people of faith that gave their thoughts on the matter.
Vigil: This young man did all the right things. He went to college and then he decided to use his education to give back to our people, to young people…
Erika D. Smith: Everybody was just really frustrated. I mean, they, they gave their thoughts on Keenan and talked a little bit about who he was, but also were just really just distraught and disappointed at the lack of police reform and reflecting on it a little bit, given the fact that it was Martin Luther King Day weekend. And, uh, there was definitely some feelings there about that.
Vigil: We must struggle for justice to transform this world, help us win in the name of Keenan Anderson.
Gustavo Arellano: We'll have more after the break.
Gustavo Arellano: So in the span of just 25 hours, Keenan Anderson died after an encounter with LAPD officers, and officers shot and killed two other men. On January 2nd, LAPD responded to a call by Shameka Smith after she said her ex-husband, Takar Smith, had violated a restraining order. She mentioned several times in her call that Takar hadn't been taking his medications for schizophrenia.
Body cam video: He's got the knife underneath him. Got the knife underneath him. He has knife under him. Officer, he has knife under him. Yeah.
Gustavo Arellano: Body cam footage shows officers opening fire after Takar grabbed the knife and he died.
Body cam video: No, he has the knife. Drop! Drop it!
Gustavo Arellano: Then on January 3rd, LAPD responded to a call in South L.A. that Oscar Sanchez had been throwing objects at passing cars.
Body cam video: Oscar. Escuchame. Me jueges?
Gustavo Arellano: Officers say that Oscar was holding a sharp piece of metal when they shot and killed him.
Body cam video: Oscar. Sate. Hey, put that down. Put that down. Shots fired. Put it out.
Gustavo Arellano: So, Richard, family members of Oscar and Takar say that they were both having mental health issues when LAPD officers shot and killed them. And one of the big pushes activists have asked for from LAPD and other agencies nationwide is to have unarmed mental health workers try to deescalate such situations and increase the use of less-lethal weapons, like stun guns, if force has to be used. What's the official LAPD policy when it comes to employing both of those tactics?
Richard Winton: Well, there's a couple of things going on here. In the case of stun guns and Tasers, essentially the LAPD is only meant to use them where there's an imminent threat. That that person poses an imminent threat. And then that in many ways is a defensive measure or alternative to using a more deadly force. And they're not meant to be using it where someone is just being noncompliant or just being a pain, a pain in the ass, so to speak. That is not what they're meant to be using the Taser for. And then when it comes to alternatives to more serious escalations of force, they have already, and they have long had, this is not something new, they have long had mental health evaluation teams. They actually developed teams which not only included police officers — some who actually have psychiatric nurse training — they also have social workers in those teams and intervention people. And so those teams were specially put together to deal with these situations. It wasn't just a matter of civilian teams. They actually created a sort of triumvirate team, with county mental health, and even some nurses to try and deal with these issues. The problem seems to be that what is actually physically happening in the field is patrol officers and divisions sometimes are quick to try and deal with the situation themselves. Maybe too quick.
Gustavo Arellano: So it sounds like what happened in all of these cases was that LAPD officers were the people who could get there fastest and the officers on the scene decided to act instead of wait for mental health specialists to come in and try to deescalate.
Richard Winton: Yeah, they're meant to be able to turn to the specialist. Now, there is a clear issue, which is supply and demand.
Richard Winton: There are so many of these issues happening everyday in the city of Los Angeles, and mental health teams are relatively small in number. I've heard on several occasions that there wasn't one available here, there wasn't one available there. I suspect it will turn out in one of these cases that that will become an issue. So having more people available for these teams is important. It's about the right people with the right training dealing with these people, and then buying time. The initial officers sometimes just need to buy time.
Gustavo Arellano: Erika, this story, people of color dying after encounters with law enforcement, then promises of reform… I hate to sound so cynical, but how many times have we covered this? How are you feeling that we couldn’t even get past January in 2023, not even the first week, not even the first couple of days, and this issue is again getting so much attention?
Erika D. Smith: Yeah, I mean it is really disappointing and frustrating and, and that was something that really came out at the vigil over Martin Luther King Day weekend. It's frustrating, you know, just like talking about these mental health teams, the fact that these are people who are available. These are teams that were designed to deal with situations like this, and the officers at the scene, for whatever reason, of all three cases did not request them. I mean, that's frustrating when you have activists and, and elected officials who have pushed through these types of reforms to have them created only for them not to be used. And so I think the problems are deeper than just creating the tools. You have to actually get people to use them, which I think is the challenge.
Erika D. Smith: Of course, we have a new mayor, Karen Bass, who has come out and denounced the deaths in all three cases and has asked for full investigations.
Erika D. Smith: But she has her own history with that. I mean, she ran obviously to the left of former candidate Rick Caruso on dealing with law enforcement issues and crime. But, you know, she also was a person winning Congress prior to being mayor. Was, uh, one of the point people on the George Floyd [Justice] in Policing Act, which had a slew of reforms in it. Couldn't get through Congress because of Republican opposition. And so I'm sure that this is an issue that she cares about quite a bit. I think there's going to be quite a bit of political pressure on her to see how she's going to deal with this.
Erika D. Smith: Also, dealing with LAPD, given the fact that the police union was so against her during the election and spent a lot of money to get Rick Cruso elected and that didn't work. So, I mean, I think there's a lot of things at play. Politics obviously is part of this, but I think overall it's frustrating. I think we keep ending up in the same spot.
Gustavo Arellano: Yeah, it's, it's really unfortunate. For the families of Keenan, Takar and Oscar, what's next?
Erika D. Smith: I think it's interesting. I mean, it's worth noting that while I think a lot of people, understandably, have linked all three of these cases, they are being represented by different attorney groups. Heading into the weekend, lawyers representing the 5-year-old son of Keenan Anderson held a press conference and announced that they were gonna sue the city for about $50 million. Um, it’s a wrongful-death lawsuit claiming that, uh, the encounter with the LAPD resulted in his death. Among the team that was at the press conference was Benjamin Crump, who has represented several, uh, families of people who have been killed by police, probably most notably George Floyd, and also another attorney called Douglas, who was a member of O.J. [Simpson’s], uh, defense team at his murder trial. The attorneys for Takar Smith's family have also held at least one or two press conferences. They are calling for a full investigation. I don't know much about Oscar Sanchez's family and as far as whether they're going to be represented, but I do know that overall I think there's going to be a push for, again, once more time, you know, some types of reforms. I think that this is an issue that's, you know, not going to go away.
Erika D. Smith: I think there's a, a frustration there and given that this is a relative of somebody from Black Lives Matter and that relative is here in Los Angeles, I think that we're going to be hearing about this for quite some time.
Gustavo Arellano: More after the break.
Gustavo Arellano: So, Richard, what has the LAPD said about the deaths of these three men?
Richard Winton: I mean, Chief Moore has indicated his concern. And given out some details, they gave out the videos. They have a rule which says they basically have to make body cams’ videos public in 45 days. Obviously, in these cases, they speeded it up because, frankly, they knew essentially these weren't good scenarios, and it, they might as well just put it out there. Chief Michel Moore, basically, when he released these videos, expressed concern about the images he saw there. And said there will be a thorough investigation into all of these incidents.
Chief Moore clip: Before I go any further, I want to extend my condolences to the family of Takar Smith, Keenan Darnell Anderson and Oscar Sanchez. Over a course of a two-day period last week, we saw each of these individuals involved in an incident with, uh, our involvement. And unfortunately, in these three circumstances, they lost their life. My commitment to the family is not just my condolences, though, it's my commitment to ensure as great a transparency as possible, as much as the law allows to include the details of the investigation, as well as the findings and my recommendations eventually regarding the actions of our people.
Richard Winton: At the same time, they indicated caveats and they said things. For instance, like in Keenan's case, that he’d, you know, had use of cocaine and cannabis in his system, which is not a shocking development given his behavior. Something was obviously up. But Chief Michel Moore is basically seeking to be a second-term police chief and that this is a very, very politically dangerous point of his career as police chief. And he needs to ensure that he gets re-upped, and obviously opposition from activists could become a major issue for him. But, the thing about these situations I've learned historically with the LAPD is that, it's a very slow process. So now is what's going to happen: The LAPD is going to do their internal investigation. There's going to be a criminal one and, uh, an internal one. The criminal one, it's a very high bar for a police officer to have committed a crime, one using their weapon. And there's so many protections that rarely, if ever, even with a, a very liberal D.A. like George Gascón, you're going to see action. Civilly: Civil suits, obviously, they're most likely to be fairly successful in these cases. Now internally, in terms of discipline for any officer involved in these situations, they typically take almost a year to even to get to the Police Commission. The Police Commission, even if they decide the officers didn't do the right thing, they say it's our policy. Actually getting the officer disciplined isn't their decision. What happens then is the police chief refers it. Typically they may send it to the Board of Rights, which is this internal body of either cops or civilians or some mix of, and then they make a decision what discipline they have. So even if Chief Moore says, let's fire this officer, often what happens is this commission, which tends to be more favorable to the officers, about half the time doesn't fire them. So you see that these sort of accountability issues over the years have been numerous. Probably the greatest chance of accountability or changes are changes in policy. The stricter the policies, the stricter the rules, the less likely something happens. So, you know, that's what tends to make change over time.
Gustavo Arellano: Erika, how is the official response to all three of these deaths sitting with activists?
Erika D. Smith: I mean, the activists are not happy with the official response at all. I mean, they're probably happier than it would've been if it was, you know, another response. I mean, I think that the urgency behind releasing the video has been met well, but I think there's some frustration and disgust that the video is edited. And one of the calls from activists is to release the unedited versions of all of the videos, which is legally possible, but is not necessarily something that LAPD has to do. There's also some calls particularly with Keenan's case about rethinking how Tasers are used and making the policies stronger. And also just there's another idea about how cops respond to traffic collisions. Do police need to be involved at all? I think overall though, I think that there will be a push from the families and probably led by activists to kind of strengthen some of these policies at the city level. I've heard some rumblings about maybe there might be some state legislation that comes out of this. I mean, we'll see if that actually happens. But I get the sense that because we're dealing with, again, Patrisse Cullors, who's been through this with numerous families and, and numerous states and other activists, I mean, they know how this plays out. They know the process. And so it'll be, you know, interesting to see if they find ways to navigate that process that are maybe haven't been done before. But I think what will be clear is that all of the folks involved are going to want to try their best to keep this case top of mind as it goes through this process, this very lengthy process. And I think a lot of times that is what happens, is that we get outraged about a shooting or a death and then three months goes by and then something else pops into the news and people kind of forget about it. And so I think that, whether change happens in a big way, I think it's going to depend a lot about whether or not the public is, uh, interest stays with it and outrage as well.
Gustavo Arellano: Yeah, I was gonna ask that to the both of you. There is a lot of officer-involved shootings, sadly, in Southern California. And especially Los Angeles Police Department has a long history of police brutality going back decades. And very few cases, very few deaths end up making some sort of change one way or another. So how big of a story do you think this can turn into, especially right now where LAPD Chief Moore is asking to be reappointed police chief for another five years?
Richard Winton: Well, actually, here's the bizarreness of this, while probably in the end, that Keenan's death may be attributable to not just the Taser, but maybe other things. In many ways, the chances of reform when it comes to Taser are there because there are far stricter policies and more clear policies. For instance, Eugene, Ore., has a policy which says you can only tase someone three times for a maximum of 15 seconds. So there are more definitive policies out there, which means the LAPD, while their policy is not one of the most liberal, unless there are other ones which are far, far more liberal in area, and far more usage, but there are ones which can be more strict. And there's probably more likelihood of progress there. When it comes to deadly force, ironically, over time is actually one of the areas, seems much more hard to make progress because there is so much court law, which heavily protects officers and their activity when it comes to deadly force. And so progress there is far, far harder. Making progress on police shootings is never easy to say the least.
Gustavo Arellano: Erika, what do you think?
Erika D. Smith: I don't know. I mean, it's interesting. I was thinking about as Richard was talking, at the vigil, there was a number of people who were there who had lost their relatives to police violence.
Vigil: Hi, everyone. Uh, my sister, Melyda Corado, was, uh, shot and killed by the LAPD nearly five years ago at the Silver Lake Trader Joe's. So I'm here today to stand with the family of Keenan Anderson. And tell them that I will forever be in solidarity with them…
Erika D. Smith: LAPD was involved in a lot of them. And in their cases, you know, some of them are still going through the investigative process. Others have been settled, civil suits have been settled. Not much has come of them. And so, you look around and you see all these families in these various states of grief and time in dealing with this long process for change.
Vigil: Hi, my name is Corey and my cousin who was stolen by a security guard, uh, in a Walgreens in Hollywood in 2018. I don't understand how people's empathy receptors are not charged yet to begin working within movement so that we can stop this. You shouldn't have to be lucky or have a certain hue of skin to receive services that you need.
Erika D. Smith: And, you know, you just don't see a lot of major sweeping change. If anything, you see more incremental change.
Vigil: I’m the aunt of Anthony Vargas. My nephew's life was taken in 2018 at the hands of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. We're standing here offering our solidarity and love to Keenan's family. Calls for help shouldn't come with a death sentence.
Gustavo Arellano: Erika, Richard, thank you so much for this conversation.
Erika D. Smith: Thank you.
Richard Winton: Thank you.
Gustavo Arellano: And that’s it for this episode of “The Times: Essential News from the L.A. Times.”
Ashlea Brown and Kinsee Morlan were the jefas on this episode. It was edited by Jazmín Aguilera and Mark Nieto mixed and mastered it.
Our show is produced by Denise Guerra, Kasia Broussalian, David Toledo and Ashlea Brown. Our editorial assistants are Roberto Reyes and Nicolas Perez. Our fellow is Helen Li. Our engineers are Mario Diaz, Mark Nieto and Mike Heflin. Our editor is Kinsee Morlan. Our executive producers are Jazmín Aguilera, Shani Hilton and Heba Elorbany. And our theme music is by Andrew Eapen.
I'm Gustavo Arellano. We'll be back Friday with all the news and desmadre. Gracias.