Newsom is thriving by attacking Democrats and Republicans alike. Is he setting up a presidential run?
It’s hard to avoid Gov. Gavin Newsom these days, even if you don’t live in California. He frequently attacks other governors, lobs daggers at members of his own Democratic Party, and expounds on the “California way” when talking about everything from abortion access to combating climate change and more. All this action on the national stage has people asking, is Newsom low-key testing the waters for a presidential run in 2024? And if not, what’s his endgame? Read the full transcript here.
Host: Gustavo Arellano
Guests: L.A. Times columnist Mark Barabak
More reading:
Column: Is Gavin Newsom running for president? Or is he just desperate for attention?
Newsom slams red state governors on D.C. trip, stoking speculation about his future
This is an unedited transcript. We apologize for the mistakes. A corrected transcript is coming soon.
Gustavo Arellano: In these midterms, the fight between Republicans and Democrats belongs to the governors.
AP: Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis took from the playbook of Texas’ Greg Abbott when he sent migrants from Texas to the wealthy island of Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts. California Governor Gavin Newsom says what DeSantis is doing is disgraceful.
Gustavo: Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and Texas Gov. Greg Abbott are widely regarded as presidential contenders for 2024.
The same can be said of California Gov. Gavin Newsom, but he’s repeatedly said he’s not interested in running for the highest office.
Gavin Newsom (tape): No, and no. I've said it in French, Italian. I don't know German. I mean, I cannot say it enough.
Gustavo: Still, it’s hard to avoid him these days, even if you don’t live in California.
News Clip: Well, there is growing speculation tonight as Gov. Newsom runs for reelection here in California about some ads he's running in Florida.
News Clip: Gov. Newsom is on the national stage in New York this week.
News Clip: He's also taking aim again at Republicans like Texas Gov. Greg Abbott, saying they are, quote, “doubling down on stupid.”
Gustavo: All this action on the national stage has people asking, is Newsom low-key testing the waters for a presidential run in 2024? And if not, what’s his endgame?
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I’m Gustavo Arellano. You’re listening to “The Times,” essential news from the L.A. Times.
It’s Monday, October 10th, 2022.
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Today, as part of our ongoing coverage of the midterm elections: How Gov. Newsom is positioning himself on the national stage, and the possible reasons why.
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Gustavo Arellano: My L.A. Times colleague and fellow columnist Mark Barabak joins me to discuss Newsom's political career. Mark, welcome to “The Times.”
Mark Barabak: Hey, Gustavo.
Gustavo Arellano: So Gov. Newsom is on the ballot in California this November. He's running for reelection. But no one's paying too much attention to the governor's race. Why?
Mark Barabak: Well, because there really isn't much of a governor's race to speak of.
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Mark Barabak: I mean, we had in effect a gubernatorial election last year in the form of a recall.
AP: Democrat Gavin Newsom becomes only the second governor in U.S. history to survive a recall vote.
Mark Barabak: Gavin Newsom won it rather handily.
AP: Gavin Newsom: We said yes to science. We said yes to vaccines. Yes to diversity.
Mark Barabak: You know, we should say a word about his opponent, Brian Dahle. I mean, he's a legit candidate. He's a state senator from the far northeast portion of the state for the Senate. He served in the Assembly. Before that, he was on the Lassen County Board of Supervisors. So here is someone who has run for office, who has been elected to office, who has a substantive record, who is a substantive guy, and people in Sacramento will tell you a very amenable fellow. He's not a bomb-thrower, he's not one of these crazies. But he's got a big problem, and that is he has the scarlet R behind his name. Really, really tough to run as a Republican in California. And as it happens, a lot of Brian Dahle's position on things like abortion, on things like guns are, frankly, out of step with where most Californians are.
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Gustavo Arellano: So with Newsom of virtual lock then to get reelected, how's he spending his time on the campaign trail?
Mark Barabak: Well, he's been spending it, uh, not in California.
News Clip: During a trip to Texas this weekend, Gov. Gavin Newsom was once again asked the big question.
Mark Barabak: He was recently in Austin at TribFest.
News Clip: Are you considering running for president in 2024 or 2028? No, no. Not happening.
Mark Barabak: A big gathering, uh, of politicos.
News Clip: Gavin Newsom: And I thank you. I’m glad you’re applauding “no.”
Mark Barabak: And he was in New York at a big climate summit to talk about some of the stuff he's done in California.
News Clip: Gavin Newsom: Good to see you. Thank you. I see a podium, so I might as well use it.
Mark Barabak: But as far as the campaign goes, he's mostly been focused on, uh, trolling, uh, in particular, the governors of Texas and Florida, Greg Abbott and Ron DeSantis specifically. He's paid for billboards on abortion rights in Texas.
News Clip: Its message is a bit unclear, but it has both political parties pointing fingers at each other. It's all about leaving California and not moving to Texas.
Mark Barabak: He's run advertisements in Florida mocking Ron DeSantis.
Ad: Freedom? It's under attack in your state. Your Republican leaders, they're banning books, making it harder to vote, restricting speech in classrooms.
Mark Barabak: Gov. Newsom pledged a hundred thousand dollars to Ron DeSantis’ Democratic opponent, who is a former Republican governor by the name of Charlie Crist. Switched parties.
Ad: I urge all of you living in Florida to join the fight or join us in California, where we still believe in freedom.
Mark Barabak: And he’s challenged DeSantis to a debate.
News Clip: “I'll bring my hair gel. You bring your hairspray,” he said in the tweet.
Mark Barabak: We’ll hash it out.
Gustavo Arellano: Oh, man, when it gets down to that, whatever your hair product is. So this sounds like what someone running for president does.
Mark Barabak: It does, and it is, and he's not, in my estimation. You know, the guy's no dummy And I think he is smart enough to know that a // run for president would be suicidal politically.
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Mark Barabak: Let's assume Joe Biden runs for president – for discussion's sake, right? // Don't know if it's gonna happen, but let's pretend that it is. Very difficult for someone to unseat a president of their own party. It's in fact a, a, a suicide mission. And what history shows is that you weaken the incumbent, so call it a murder-suicide. And Joe Biden runs, Joe Biden's defeated, everyone blames Gavin Newsom. Where's the political future in that?
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Mark Barabak: OK. Joe Biden decides he's not gonna run. So Kamala Harris, who, you know, if she was a stock would be trading very, very low, let us say. But the fact is, structurally, she is the frontrunner for that nomination. She is looking to make history as the first Black woman president. The base of the Democratic Party is Black women. Tell me the percentage in Gavin Newsom going after her.
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Mark Barabak: So I think Gavin Newsom is positioning himself – if lightning strikes, if Joe Biden doesn't run, if Kamala Harris were to run a terrible campaign, which she's perfectly capable of, she's done it once before, then he'd be in a position to sweep in as the savior of the party. And in the meantime, he's getting a lot of attention and we're talking about Gavin Newsom, right? The difference between a governor doing workaday, boring governor stuff and a governor who, hey, might be running for president, might take on his own party, right? A lot of people all across the country are talking about him in a way they wouldn't if he was just, like I said, just another governor doing governor stuff. But I just don't see him running, really running, in 2024.
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Gustavo Arellano: Coming up after the break: the wars of Gavin Newsom.
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Gustavo Arellano: Mark, we’ve talked about the rise of Gov. Newsom on the podcast before, so give our listeners a quick refresher on him — where did he come from, what offices has he held, all that stuff.
Mark Barabak: So Newsom really grew up in two worlds, if you will, in the San Francisco Bay Area, dividing his time between life with his single mom who worked three jobs to, uh, scratch out a living. And then with his dad, who, uh, was a state appellate court judge with deep roots in San Francisco's Democratic establishment, whose best friend happened to be the oil heir and billionaire Gordon Getty. The Getty connection is significant. It helps set Gavin Newsom up in business. We're talking about an upscale chain of wine stores, wineries, restaurants, nightclubs, hotels that have made him quite a wealthy man.
So Newsom got a start in politics in 1996 when then-San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown, appointed him to the, uh, parking and traffic commission. The next year, Brown appointed Newsom to the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, which – San Francisco is a city county, so that's the equivalent of being on the city council and board of supervisors, if you will, served three terms there before becoming mayor and then got reelected mayor four years later he ran.
[00:09:31] Mark Barabak: A lot of people won't remember this because why should you: He ran for governor, not very successfully against Jerry Brown, who ended up winning. Dropped out of that. Ran for lieutenant governor, got elected, got reelected as lieutenant governor in 2014, and then of course he was elected governor in 2018, winning 62% of the vote, which happens to be the exact same percentage he received in beating back the, uh, attempted recall, which to my mind was a, huge waste of, uh, 200-plus million dollars, essentially to rerun an election that, uh, he essentially won the first time.
Gustavo Arellano: Yeah and speaking of that recall….Newsom obviously trounced it…but did the recall change him in any way?
Mark Barabak: Well, what I think it did was I think it emboldened him and I think it cut him loose. I mean, he doesn't really have a reelection campaign that he needs to tend to, which frees him up to troll Ron DeSantis and troll Greg Abbott and make a national name for himself. I mean, the fact that we effectively had a governor's race with the recall last year means we don't have much of a race this year.
Gustavo Arellano: Yeah, and it seems like ever since the recall happened, he’s been trying to govern more for the whole United States, or at least address huge, contentious issues. Like, whenever Newsom holds a press conference announcing a new bill, he always seems to say California’s leading the nation.
Mark Barabak: Yeah, I think some of that is just the fact that, you know, the governor is a really, really big deal. And it's a really big job and it's a very, very large platform. And I think Ka Newsom has been capitalizing on that. And also, you know, we do see sort of this, uh, I wouldn't call it an experiment, but it is a side-by-side contrast. Two very different styles of of governing. Two very different approaches. And Texas and Florida are are the embodiment, uh, of that more conservative vision of governance. And California is the uh, exemplar of a more left, liberal way of governing. And Gavin Newsom has been very eager to make that contrast because I think he feels that it's not only been successful – and we could debate whether that's true or not, but from his perspective, successful – in California. And I think the direction the country is headed as it becomes more diverse. So I think Gavin Newsom, you know, will tell you that he thinks that he's shown a successful model in California and he wants to see that go national.
Gustavo Arellano: Yeah. And one of the ways he's doing it is by, you know, getting these big national topics and saying like, this is a bastion of liberalism and we're going to not only pass groundbreaking initiatives and bills, we’re also going to trash talk the people who aren't doing it. So one of the big issues, of course, is abortion. What sort of policies has he put forward?
Mark Barabak: Well, he of course is supporting uh, Proposition 1, which is the measure on the ballot that would enshrine abortion rights uh, into the state constitution.
Gavin Newsom: So this is a remarkable moment, but we're here in California, and we're here to stand tall and to meet this moment head on and to lead and lean in. And I'm very proud of that.
Mark Barabak: He also recently just signed a suite of legislation – bills that would make abortion more accessible, increase funding for access to abortion.
Gavin Newsom: I am though very mindful that California can play an outsized role at this moment. I'm mindful of the fact that we punch above our weight. I'm mindful that this state is the largest and most diverse state in the world's most diverse democracy. I'm mindful of our history, our proud past, where we have led.
Gustavo Arellano: An even bigger topic for Newsom has been climate change. California has long been aggressive in tackling the issue, but what has Newsom done?
Mark Barabak: Well, what Gavin Newsom has done is build on, uh, keeping credit where due, Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know, one of his big signature issues was, was climate change and passed major legislation. And Gavin Newsom has extended those other measures to wean California from fossil fuels, to promote, uh, alternative renewable energies. And perhaps the big one is legislation that would ban the sale of any gas-powered cars. The goal being, uh, California going all electric by 2035, which, you know, really isn't that far down – forgive the metaphor – too far down the road.
Gustavo Arellano: Yeah. All these stances obviously put Newsom on the more left side, it seems, of the Democratic Party. So I'd assume his relationship with Democrats is all good?
Mark Barabak: No, I wouldn't say so. I mean, look there are small things about Governor Newsom's style that folks in Sacramento don't, like I'm talking about members of his own party. You know, they feel that he blindsides him sometimes. There was this legislation involving, uh, uh, re-upping, uh, the Diablo nuclear power plant felt they were blindsided. That kind of brought that up in the last minute. So there are style things folks don't like, but there's also more substantive things. You know, he vetoed legislation that would've let local governments set up safe drug injection sites. He's also taken on national Democrats after the, uh, Dobbs decision leaked out overturning Roe v. Wade. Uh, he said, where the hell is my party?
News Clip: Gavin Newsom: Where's the Democratic party? Why aren't we standing up more firmly, more resolute?
Mark Barabak: And he's really gone after Democrats, criticizing them for not being more vigorous.
News Clip: Gavin Newsom: Why aren't we calling this out? This is a concerted, coordinated effort, and yes, they're winning. They are..
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Gustavo Arellano: So he smacks down Republicans. He'll also smack down Democrats. Where does that tendency come from, and what does he gain from that?
Mark Barabak: Well, I think part of it is feeling that he's filling the shoes that he's been fitted with being California governor is, as I said, a big job, a big stage. I think that he feels that, uh, you know, he has every right to speak out and should, and should take advantage of that platform. I do think too, you know, he's talked about growing up dyslexic and being bullied and specifically said, I don't like bullies, which is how he's referred to, uh, some of these Republican governors. So I think in some senseI, I think that that's personal. And two, I think there's a little bit of ego there thinking, Hey, I'm governor of California, you know, people should pay attention to me. I'm important.
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Gustavo Arellano: More after the break.
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Gustavo Arellano: Mark, you mentioned earlier how Newsom has been in the news nationally this year – not so much for what he's doing in California, but what he's saying about two prominent Republican governors specifically. One of them, of course, is Texas Gov. Greg Abbott. What's the beef there?
Mark Barabak: So Gov. Abbott signed very restrictive, uh, legislation, effectively banning abortion in the state of Texas. But what is notable is how far he went beyond that. Essentially, what the legislation did was deputized just your average citizen who can go after anyone. Take 'em to court. Anyone who has an abortion, anyone who is seen as aiding and abetting someone having an abortion. So basically turning people into, I don't know if you wanna say snitches, but that's kind of what it is. So Gavin Newsom said, Well, fine. OK. If you're gonna do that on abortion, then we're gonna do that with guns. We're gonna pass legislation and say to folks, Hey, if you wanna go after somebody for possessing a gun they shouldn't have, or, what, whatever, then sure.
AP: Gavin Newsom: We're going to use it to save people's lives here in the state of California.
Mark Barabak: And a significant part of that legislation actually allows the attorney general or private citizens to sue gun manufacturers who were very successful in Washington, lobbying for, for // legislation that prevents them from being held liable very explicitly. So this very much goes against what has been federal law and a carve out for the gun industry.
Gustavo Arellano: Newsom’s been even harsher on Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, like we kind of mentioned earlier — and vice versa. What’s their back-and-forth about?
Mark Barabak: You know, the back-and-forth between, uh, DeSantis and Newsom, part of it is, like the law of physics, right? The equal and opposite reaction. I mean, you know, Ron DeSantis is very much out there running for president, even as he runs for reelection in a way that Greg Abbott is not. So I think Gavin Newsom may be responding more to Governor DeSantis simply because he has a much, much higher profile. But, you know, things really got, uh, snippy between the two of them when uh, DeSantis signed some legislation, uh, it was a law restricting how uh, sexual orientation and gender identity are addressed in, in Florida's public schools.
AP: Ron DeSantis: In Florida, we will make sure that parents can send their kids to school to get an education, not an indoctrination.
Mark Barabak: Disney, big employer, huge economic factor in both California and Florida, came out against the legislation. So uh, Ron DeSantis signed a bill that took away some of Disney's special tax deal and some other stuff involving their properties.
AP: Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis asked the legislature to repeal a law allowing Walt Disney World to operate a private government over its properties in the state. It's all part of a feud between the governor and Disney over what critics call the “don't say gay” bill.
Mark Barabak: So, I mean, it was very clearly a retaliatory measure against Disney.
AP: Ron DeSantis: You're a corporation based in Burbank, California, and you're gonna marshal your economic might to attack the parents of my state. Uh, we view that as a provocation and we are gonna fight back against that.
Mark Barabak: So Gavin Newsom said, Hey, Disney, come on back to California. And you know, he's also talked a lot about books that have been banned. He tweeted out a picture of himself actually looking very scholarly as he sat there and read one of the banned books. He had a stack of others in front of, but more substantively, he just signed into law a bill offering “refuge” to transgender youth and their parents who feel persecution in their home states.
AP: Ron DeSantis: I'll tell you this, uh, the Legislature gave me $12 million. We're gonna spend every penny of that to make sure that we're protecting the people of the state of Florida.
Mark Barabak: And of course, Ron Desant was very much in the news with this, we'll call it what it is, political stunt where Florida passed some legislation giving him money to deal with immigration. So he used some of it to send someone to San Antonio to round up some poor, unsuspecting, uh, asylum seekers and shipped them off to Martha's Vineyard.
AP: Gavin Newsom: He's got kids. I have kids. You saw those young girls with backpacks, no older than his children. My children. Being used as political ponds, and now he's using it to fundraise, to raise money. It's disgraceful. He's a disgrace.
Mark Barabak: The point of the message was to be in your face. So Ron DeSantis did that, and Gavin Newsom turned around and got in his face.
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Mark Barabak: You know, it's action and reaction. Florida does something and Gavin Newsom pushes back and says, Hey, we're different. Here's how we do things in California. Again, for good or ill.
Gustavo Arellano: You said earlier you don't think Newsom is gearing up for a 2024 presidential run. But when you hear him doing all this posturing, what do you think he’s doing?
Mark Barabak: I think he is positioning himself if the star and the sun and the moon were to line up just perfectly for him to make a run in 2024. But, again, I think he's just trying to turn himself into a national Democratic spokesperson so that in 2028 or 2032 or whenever opportunity comes along, he would be positioned to do so. And I also think Newsom is someone who, you know, he wants to be a player. He wants to be heard. He wants to be a part of the conversation. He wants to be in the mix. Whether he's running for president or not, he wants to be a part of the conversation, and he certainly managed that.
Gustavo Arellano: Yeah, it's interesting because there is that tendency for a lot of California governors to run for higher office. Ronald Reagan, obviously, but Jerry Brown ran for it. Pete Wilson, hell, Hiram Johnson, back in the day, they all ended up running.
Mark Barabak: Well, you know, when you're California governor, it comes with several things. You get a car and a driver, you get that office in the capital, you get tickets to the uh, governor's ball at the Oscars, and you also get placed on the list that all of the great missioners mention, right. // That comes with the job. People talk about you as presidential timber, not a huge record of success. Of course, everyone points to Ronald Reagan. Jerry Brown tried three times. Pete Wilson very unsuccessfully ran for president. I think that's another reason that Gavin Newsom may not run. I think he's smart enough to know it's really, really tough to be governor of California. And run for president successfully. And I think too, one thing he would find is all this flattering press coverage about, gee, is Gavin Newsom gonna run? Is he not gonna run? All of a sudden would turn on a dime. It be very much about his record and his performance. And you know, as much as we love our wonderful state, there are a lot of people who don't, and all baggage, homelessness and all the crazy loopy left-wing crazy California stuff would very much be part of the baggage that Gavin Newsom would be schlepping around Iowa, New Hampshire, and wherever else he'd be campaigning for president.
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Gustavo Arellano: Finally, Mark, how has all of this national attention affected Newsom? Do you think that the Newsom that was the mayor of San Francisco is the same as the Newsom that’s the governor of California today?
Mark Barabak: I mean, Gavin Newsom has always been someone who… Oh, is willing to take bold steps as he sees them. I think he sees himself as destined for big things. As San Francisco mayor he famously pushed through a gay marriage and allowed it to happen long before the rest of the country. So he was way out front of the country on that thing. I think he would, uh, feel, uh, a great deal of pride, actually, that he was out front of the rest of the country. So I think he's always had that uh, streak, if you will, to, to think big and to act bold. I think now he is a much larger platform as California governor and he's looking to exercise that.
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Gustavo Arellano: Mark, thanks so much for this conversation.
Mark Barabak: Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.
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