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Turkey's earthquake, California's "Big One"

Episode Summary

An earthquake as devastating as the one that hit Turkey and Syria this month has been forecast to hit Southern California for decades.

Episode Notes

An earthquake as devastating as the one that hit Turkey and Syria this month has been forecast to hit Southern California for decades. What can residents and governments do to prepare?.

Today, our Masters of Disasters talk to us about how to prepare. Read the full transcript here.

Host: Gustavo Arellano

Guests: L.A. Times earthquake reporter Ron-Gong Lin II, and L.A. Times coastal reporter Rosanna Xia

More reading:


California faces threat from the type of back-to-back mega-earthquakes that devastated Turkey

A deadly building flaw common in California brings destruction and misery to Turkey, Syria

Subscribe to “Unshaken,” the L.A. Times’ earthquake newsletter

Episode Transcription

Gustavo Arellano: The ultimate disaster that's always on the back of the minds of Californians has happened. The big one hit in Turkey and Syria. 

AP TAPE: Rescuers are racing to find survivors in the rubble of thousands of buildings brought down by the 7.8 magnitude earthquake and multiple aftershocks. 

Gustavo Arellano: At the time of this recording, over 33,000 people confirmed dead and the count’s rising. 

AP TAPE: With morgues and cemeteries overwhelmed in many areas of the Turkey quake zone, bodies lie wrapped in blankets, rugs, and tarps in the streets of some cities.

Gustavo Arellano: Rescue teams from all over the world quickly descended upon the wreckage, including those from the Los Angeles County Fire Department.

AP TAPE: President Joe Biden says the U.S. is providing $85 million in initial earthquake aid to Turkey and Syria. 

Gustavo Arellano: It's one of the deadliest earthquakes so far in the 21st century, and the carnage in Turkey and Syria has many of us in California and beyond thinking, how could we prepare when something like this happens here?

Gustavo Arellano: I'm Gustavo Arellano, you're listening to The Times, Essential News from the LA Times. It's Monday, February 13, 2023. Today we explore the aftermath of this earthquake, look at some of the deadliest ones in history, and ask whether we ever learn from them. 

Now, this is technically an episode of Masters of Disasterszzz, but I'm not going ask for música this time, maestro, because honestly, I'm scared.

I don't like earthquakes. Don't like 'em at all. Ever since I fell from the top bunk during the 1987 Whittier Narrows one here in Southern California. And that one was just a magnitude 5.9. A broken collarbone is nothing compared to what's going on right now, of course, but still I'll admit it, I'm scared. 

So thank God we have our Masters of Disasters here to calm us in these shaky times.

Gustavo Arellano: Joining us as always in the earthquake chair is Ron Lin. Ron, what song do you sing when you're scared?

Rong-Gong Lin: Uh, I just start counting. Usually it's a, when an earthquake is actually happening, I just start counting.

Rosanna Xia: Oh my God.

Gustavo Arellano: Yeah, no, anything. Keep you calm. Although counting, that's scary ‘cause what happens if you count more than 10? Like, ugh. Anyways, our Cassandra of the coast as always as Rosanna Xia, who also used to cover earthquakes, do you miss covering them? Rosanna?

Rosanna Xia: I feel like I never quite escaped them. I mean, we do live in California, and this will probably be the theme of today, but you should never, ever stop thinking about earthquakes.

Gustavo Arellano: Yeah, too often, too many of us do. Sadly. So Ron, what made the earthquake in Turkey so devastating?

Rong-Gong Lin: So this was a supersized quake directly underneath a heavily populated area. A magnitude 7.8 quake is massive. It's something that we haven't seen in California since the 1906 great earthquake that nearly wiped off San Francisco. 

Rong-Gong Lin: People might remember being afraid of the Northridge earthquake of ‘94, which was a magnitude 6.7.

But if you think about it, the strongest shaking really only affected the San Fernando Valley. If you were in Orange County, it wasn't that bad. But a 7.8 would be catastrophic with violent shaking all over Southern California.

Gustavo Arellano: And you know what's crazy about that ‘94 quake? It wasn't that bad in Orange County, and yet the swimming pool of my parents, it completely emptied out and flooded our living room just because of the waves. Yeah, no, it got that bad. And it's not just the earthquakes themselves, Ron, there's always aftershocks. And in Turkey, just hours later, there was also a big aftershock. So how did that further affect what's happening?

Rong-Gong Lin: Right. So first let's explain what an aftershock is. An aftershock is just a fancy word for a follow up earthquake. doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be not a big deal, which I think a lot of people think of and think of earthquakes as relieving strain. People think that strain is relief, but that strain doesn't just disappear. It will also transition onto other faults and that transitioning onto other faults is what causes subsequent earthquakes. And so in theTurkey quake, the Turkey quakes are really interesting. So you had the first 7.8 quake that happened before dawn in the dark, and then nine hours later, there was this 7.5 quake, which is a mega quake in and of itself with an epicenter 60 miles away. And we all saw on TV how buildings collapsed from that one. So it's just super important to remember that sometimes it's the second quake that's gonna be the one that could kill you. Um, we have examples of that. A lot of people probably remember the Ridgecrest quakes from a few years back.

There was that quake that happened at night, and then just, you know, a little while later, it was actually a bigger quake that happened, some time later. And, one thing to remember is that, the last time, uh, supersize quake, a 7.8 happened in Southern California, was in 1857.

And it was actually preceded by two smaller quakes, a 6.1 and a 5.6 in Central California. And then we got the massive 7.8 quake. So, you know, just remember that, when the 7.8 happens, you know, wherever you are, that doesn't necessarily mean it's over. There could be a pretty big, massive quake, just like we saw in Turkey, a subsequent quake that could be the one that causes the problem for wherever you are in that area. 

Gustavo Arellano: And Ron, any time there's an earthquake that big, 7.8, 7.5, in areas with a lot of people, thousands are gonna die like what we've seen in Turkey and Syria. When was the last time we had an earthquake this deadly?

Rong-Gong Lin: Yeah, I mean, just in 1999 there was an earthquake in northwestern Turkey, that killed about 17,000 people. Unfortunately we have had even deadlier earthquakes, the Haiti earthquake in 2010 that killed somewhere in excess of 200,000 people.

Rosanna Xia: Oh my God.

Gustavo Arellano: Yeah, and I mean, there's just so many over our lifetime. Rosanna, any come to mind to you?

Rosanna Xia: Yeah, I mean to add to Ron's list, there was also that devastating earthquake in China in 2008 in the Sichuan province where I think there was more than 87,000 people, right, that died. That earthquake was also a magnitude 7.9, and I mean, I'll just add that it's surreal just to talk about so many earthquakes that killed thousands of people in one moment.

Gustavo Arellano: Tens of thousands, yeah.

Rosanna Xia: Tens of thousands, yeah. And the first earthquake I actually personally followed as a reporter was the one that hit New Zealand in 2011. That was a 6.2 earthquake that ruptured right under the city of Christchurch, which has a similar kind of building makeup as downtown Los Angeles. And that earthquake alone felt pretty huge to me, like watching an entire concrete office building completely collapse onto itself. And the death total there was, only 185 people, which was extremely overwhelming to me at the time, so I'm honestly still processing the tens of thousands of people that have been killed in these other earthquakes. And the thousands and thousands of people that were killed in Turkey and Syria, the death toll just keeps growing every day, every hour I check the news. And we often talk about the death toll after an earthquake, but the number of people displaced and also the number of people who have serious injuries that often get forgotten or are buried in the bottom of a report, but that's also worth noting. It's not just the tens of thousands of people that are dead. It's also the many thousands and millions that are still alive that have to live with the aftermath of just so much devastation.

Gustavo Arellano: Yeah. And the people in Turkey and Syria are gonna have to deal with this for years, if not decades. So Ron, we now have cars that can drive themselves and chatbots that can write crappy essays. Why are we still so bad at predicting earthquakes?

Rong-Gong Lin: Right, so I mean, think of it when you're dealing with a toddler and you're trying to figure out is it going to be just a little bit of a meltdown or like a long meltdown? That's kind of the same thing with earthquakes actually. I mean, uh, the thing is, we know.

Gustavo Arellano: Where's the baby bottle for the earthquakes then?

Rong-Gong Lin: Exactly, right. So basically it's like, we know what earthquakes, how the earthquakes start, but when you see the earthquakes start, you just don't know if it's gonna just end at a magnitude 2, or if it'll be something much worse. So that's part of the issue is that they are just very random and then there's just no way to do it. It's pretty much the stuff of science fiction to think that you could immediately know, hours or days in the future, or weeks in the future, exactly when a damaging earthquake is gonna happen at the exact time.

Gustavo Arellano: But doesn't California have an app that tells you when an earthquake's happening?

Rong-Gong Lin: That's right. But the app is basically alerting people farther away from the earthquake that an earthquake has started and it's on your way. So it's basically like, you know, just letting you know a few seconds before the shaking arrives but the earthquake has already started. It's just a, an early warning system, so to speak.

Gustavo Arellano: All right. 

Rosanna Xia: But even if you can't predict, I think these early warnings, I just want to really hammer on the point. Even a few seconds can make a difference. It can prevent, you know, gas leaks. If we have automatic shutoffs, if you're in the middle of getting brain surgery, the surgeon would know to stop and do whatever protocol they can do in the few seconds of a head’s up that they have. Like I, I do think these early warnings, even though they're not actually predicting earthquakes, could make a huge difference.

Gustavo Arellano: Yeah. No, totally. And Rosanna, we were talking earlier about just economic devastation, and so when an earthquake of this magnitude happens, how long is the recovery process?

Rosanna Xia: Yeah, I mean the first thing that comes to mind actually is just the timing of any given earthquake in some ways is everything. With the one that just hit Turkey and Syria, recovery teams are currently trying to sift through all the rubble while it's snowing and raining. And you know, the people who have been trapped for days waiting for rescue, they're trapped in freezing temperatures. There's never a good time for an earthquake as large as this one, but right in the middle of winter might actually be the worst. You're really racing against the clock here with how long someone's able to survive in such extreme weather before a rescue team actually finds and reaches the person. And you know, even when it's not snowing, it's usually pure chaos after an earthquake this large. Roads, water supply, cell towers. So many of the systems that we rely on to communicate, to travel, to reach people, can crumble in an instant. I've been thinking a lot in these last few days about just how you even physically count and account for more than 12,000 bodies in such a short span of time. And none of this is even recovery, right? We're still in the rescue and survival phase of this earthquake. Maybe Ron could talk more about what it takes to actually recover and rebuild, and whether people even come back to a place after they've been displaced by disaster. I mean, Ron, you went back to New Zealand like seven, eight years after the 2011 earthquake, right? To see how Christchurch had recovered and you were telling me a lot of downtown still felt like a ghost town.

Rong-Gong Lin: Yeah, it really did. And the unfortunate thing, we all talk about recovery as if we can get back to exactly what it was like before the earthquake. But the troubling secret is, Is that you don't ever get there. I mean, if you look at the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, you could argue that San Francisco never really truly recovered or that it took, you know, many, many decades to do so because a lot of people just moved out of  San Francisco, uh you know, moved to the East Bay. Even even if you look at downtown Los Angeles after the Northridge quake, there were a lot of brick buildings and all those lots that now exist like randomly in downtown L.A. You know, a lot of those were taken down after the ‘94 Northridge earthquake. So earthquakes will irreparably change a place forever. And it's about how do you improve the situation going forward, but you can never really get back to where you were before the earthquake. 

Rosanna Xia: Yeah, and in a place like Syria and Turkey and that whole area with just the geopolitics and the conflicts that are already happening, I mean, I think, even in a place like California rebuilding is so bureaucratic and so political. I'm heartbroken and just like, I don't even know where to start to think about what recovery will look like in the areas that have been hit.

Rong-Gong Lin: So that's why it's so important to prevent the damage before it happens. That's the best way to avoid having to even think about recovering back from a catastrophe, you get that work done before the quake and you're much better off.

Gustavo Arellano: We'll be back after this break. 

Gustavo Arellano: Ron, are the similarities between the earthquake that happened in Turkey and Syria and those that have happened here in California and will happen here in California?

Rong-Gong Lin: So, one thing that I think many people don't realize is that California and Turkey, as well as New Zealand, we all actually have earthquake faults of our own class. So it might be surprising to a lot of people, but we're all cursed with huge faults directly over land. And when it happens, like, there's really intense shaking that can happen when you're really close to the fault, so that's one similarity. Two, we have heavily populated areas directly over the faults. And then three, It might be tempting to think that Turkey has not that great minimum building construction standards. It's a very Californian, viewpoint, but. Yeah. But Turkey actually has very similar minimum building construction standards to California. So the lesson applies. The big problem is older buildings that were built just a few decades ago, but haven't been required to be fixed.

Gustavo Arellano: Yeah, no, that, and that's what makes it scary, especially now more so, you're saying that California and Turkey are similar seismically. Turkey has these stringent building codes for newer buildings, and nevertheless, you see all this devastation. And so seeing this, I can't help but to think about something that native Californians have been hearing about their entire lives. This idea that we're long overdue for a huge earthquake. In fact,scientists gave it a nickname a long time ago. The Big One, real original name there. So what on earth are they talking about, Ron?

Rong-Gong Lin: Yeah, so, what we're talking about is a magnitude 7.8 quake. I mean, it's exactly the same magnitude as what hit Turkey and Syria.

Gustavo Arellano: Or bigger too, right?

Rong-Gong Lin: Yeah, it could actually even be a magnitude 8.2.

Gustavo Arellano: Ugh.

Rong-Gong Lin: That would be really, you know, terrible. I mean, you're, we're talking about, you know, more than a hundred miles of the San Andreas fault all the way from the Mexican border, all the way up to past, through Los Angeles County up into Monterey County. And so you would have a huge area of the state basically simultaneously being hit by, you know, massive shaking. We have estimates from the U.S. Geological Survey of what a 7.8 quake could do to, you know, modern day Southern California. We're talking 1,800 dead, 50,000 injured, you know, a million people displaced. It's not a great scenario at all.

Gustavo Arellano: I once did earthquake training and what terrified me the most when, uh, the person was talking about the Big One was that an earthquake like that, it would knock down what? Electricity, water, Wi-Fi, but even more terrifying, freeways. So you would, like you would basically, in some areas you'd be blocked out from the freeways ‘cause they would just collapse and you're just stuck where you're at. And good luck with that. 

Rong-Gong Lin: So one key thing to think about is the Cajon Pass. This is, you know, if you're driving from L.A. to Las Vegas, you've driven through it. It's where the I-15 goes over these mountains. And not only is there a freeway there, there's electricity lines, there's fuel lines, and it crosses the San Andreas fault. And so, you know, when the Big One happens, when a magnitudes, 7.8 quake happens, by definition, it means that one part of the fault on average will lurch past the other part of the fault 30 feet away from each other. So that's like a, a school bus size displacement happening in a matter of seconds. So you can easily imagine how fuel lines and freeways and train tracks will suddenly get displaced, cutting off Southern California from points east and points northeast. So it's something that we haven't seen in any of our lifetimes with all the modern day infrastructure.

 Gustavo Arellano: 150 years, you said earlier, and I, and I always hear that we're long overdue for this Big One. Aye aye aye.

Rong-Gong Lin: Yeah. And like people have talked about the word “overdue.” The thing is, is that it's kind of random. it's not like an earthquake is like a, 10th month pregnant person. it's not like it has to come at a certain point. But, we also know that it has been quiet, uh, lately.

Rosanna Xia: Ron, hold on. A 10-month pregnant person?

Rong-Gong Lin: Sorry, I mean, I mean…

Rosanna Xia: Are you about to have kids? All these toddler children analogies?

Gustavo Arellano: Oh wow. That's true. Rosanna with the radar there.

Rosanna Xia:I just wanna add with, I think, freeway collapses, power lines, I mean just what's happening in Turkey and Syria right now, I mean, even just the initial rush to help, you know, from the outside world, just being able to land in the airports, driving down the roads to these more remote areas, like, our entire systems that we rely on really break down when an earthquake hits this hard.

Gustavo Arellano: And while we're all waiting for the Big One, smaller earthquakes are still happening in California. There was one recently off the coast of Malibu that got people a little bit woozy. There was a magnitude 6.4 one right before Christmas up in Northern California and Mendocino County. Earthquakes again are around us in California, but Rosanna, when you tune them out, what is that risk in forgetting how dangerous they can be?

Rosanna Xia: It's very Californian of us to become desensitized to earthquakes, but, given how terrible we are at preparing for even the disasters that we know are coming, I won't get on my soapbox about this today, but I'm usually writing about climate change, sea level rise, mega storms, all these disasters that we know are coming and even with the extra time to prepare, or to change our behavior to stop these looming disasters. We're not exactly using that time wisely either. That all said, I will say I actually do have some hope on the earthquake front. It did take some prodding, but California has actually started to do some remarkably proactive work on earthquake retrofitting, which I know Ron has been writing a lot about.

Rong-Gong Lin: I mean, a lot of progress has been made in some cities. And so, there are a number of cities that have required retrofits of apartment buildings with those flimsy ground floors known as dingbats. But one troubling thing is that, most cities haven't. And then, specifically in regards to the Turkey quake, there were these dramatic TV images of these buildings all collapsing. And guess what, they're all of the same construction type. They're known as nonductile concrete buildings, better known as, uh, brittle concrete buildings. Basically, there's not enough steel rebar in the construction frame and when shaken, the concrete explodes out of the columns. Right? There have been only three cities, as far as I can tell, that have had laws passed by their city councils to require them to be retrofitted: Los Angeles, West Hollywood and Santa Monica. They did put in many years of a deadline, so they're not all retrofitted yet, and they won't be for some time, but at least the process has started. The troubling thing is that many other cities have not including, and I just checked, San Jose, San Francisco and Long Beach. And these are the types of buildings that keep on collapsing around the world. We saw this in Mexico City where these concrete buildings pancaked. In fact, if you look at all of these images of all of these buildings that collapse, the stuff that is the nightmares of people in terms of the pancake collapse buildings, they're all nonductile concrete buildings.

Rosanna Xia: I backtrack my, uh, I have some hope. And yeah, I mean, this just brings to mind this saying that Ron and I hear a lot in the earthquake world, earthquakes don't kill people, buildings do. If an earthquake happened in like the middle of nowhere and there are no buildings where people, like, life goes on, but it's the buildings that collapse onto you that is what leads to all this devastation. And you know what Ron just said, like, I think the thing that really stood out to me, covering the New Zealand quake is that the building codes, the older buildings, especially in California, reflect a lot of the older buildings that you see collapsing in other parts of the world. And so, you can't just say, oh, that's happening in Turkey. We're different. And I feel like this earthquake is just such a sobering wakeup call. And yeah, like, Ron said, some of the laws have been passed, but a lot of the work and the follow through has not happened. I retract my statement earlier. 

Rong-Gong Lin: But the optimism is warranted. I mean, San Francisco, the stuff that I'm getting outta San Francisco is that they are moving toward some kind of resolution, hopefully soon, relatively soon, in terms of nonductile concrete issues. So I think that hope is there, and I think if cities keep on moving toward getting these buildings retrofitted, that'll help. and to be fair, Long Beach, San Jose. They are trying to work on retrofitting soft story apartment buildings, which represents huge progress. And so there is hope, but you would also hope that,we could do multiple things at the same time rather than doing things one by one.

Gustavo Arellano: So where's the safest place then, to be in during an earthquake?

Rong-Gong Lin: Camping in a field far away from any trees. Um, what, what's really true is that, you know, if, when you feel shaking, if you're inside, you know, drop, cover and hold on, it's something that I think people who grew up in California know by heart, but maybe…

Gustavo Arellano: Duck and cover, yeah.

Rong-Gong Lin: …people who moved here, you know, they may want to run out. Probably one of the worst things you can do. Especially if you're in a brick building is to run out. ‘Cause those bricks from that kind of snazzy, you know, brick building that might feel cool. The thing that usually happens is that the brick falls onto the sidewalk. So you want to drop, cover and hold on, wait until the shaking happens. If it looks like there's any structural damage, you know, calmly exit the building because you don't know when that aftershock is gonna happen.

Rosanna Xia: Yeah, and you know, not to be doom and gloom, so earthquakes don't kill people. Buildings do. And then, you know, after the buildings come the fires. And I think that it isn't just this one moment in time that happens as we're seeing in Turkey and Syria too, but the number of fires that can spark and really ripple across even broader areas beyond the epicenter and where the earthquakes actually hit can be devastating as well.

Gustavo Arellano: Fires, fires, fires everywhere. Not enough water to put them out. So basically the two of you are saying, we should always be freaked out about what earthquakes can cause. So how can we prepare to be less freaked out about them?

Rong-Gong Lin: So, I think a big part of it is just being prepared, right? We put people on the moon, we should be able to engineer our buildings to better resist earthquakes. So, if you're a homeowner, you don't want your home sliding off in a quake, that'll cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to repair. if you have a home built before 1980 and there's a few steps between the ground and in your house, go to You might be eligible for money to retrofit your home. If you're a building owner of an apartment that has these kind of flimsy poles holding up the building for carports, you know, really look at getting that apartment retrofitted. 

Gustavo Arellano: Dingbat apartments.

Rong-Gong Lin: Exactly. Exactly. 

Gustavo Arellano: Yeah.

Rong-Gong Lin: And, and everyone, if you smell gas after shaking, do the research now to know, like, do you have a tool to shut off your gas? That's gonna be a big, you know, help. And if you're forward thinking, maybe consider installing an automatic earthquake shutoff valve so when there's intense shaking in a quake, the gas automatically shuts off. Yes, you'll have to get it turned back on. But there are a bunch of people who would imagine that better to get that shut off. right after the quake, before the house blows up.

Gustavo Arellano: What about you, Rosanna?

Rosanna Xia: So I have this habit where every six months I set a reminder that goes off of my phone to check my earthquake kit. The things I usually have to refresh are like the canned foods and granola bars that do expire, and also just, you know, refreshing my cases of bottled water because the plastic can get a little warpy after a few years. And I actually just swapped out my earthquake water supply yesterday. I have 10 new one gallon jugs under my bed and I'm boiling the water from the old ones to cook and clean and stuff. And I guess this would be my unapologetic plug to check out Unshaken, our series that the amazing team on the utility desk did a couple months ago on just breaking down all the things that you can do to prepare your earthquake kit. Gustavo, how much water are you supposed to store?

Gustavo Arellano: I have one of those big packs that I buy from Home Depot, so whatever that is.

Rong-Gong Lin: (laughs)

Rosanna Xia: Also, I should say, now would be a really good time, Gustavo, to finally strap in your bookcases. 

Rosanna Xia: For people who can't see what Ron and I see every time we tape with Gustavo, he records in this like cave where he's surrounded by shelves and shelves and shelves of books and stuff that can all topple down on top of him in an instant.

Gustavo Arellano: Hey, hey, hey, I’m the book master, so they’re going to follow my instructions to stay put on the shelves, right? Right?

Gustavo Arellano: We'll be right back.

Gustavo Arellano: And now comes our traditional moment of joy, where we ask our masters what's bringing them good vibes during these scary, shaky times. 

Gustavo Arellano: Ron, what's bringing you joy right now? 

Rong-Gong Lin:  Hmm.

Gustavo Arellano: Oh wow, this is a first time, a “hmmm.”

Rong-Gong Lin: What is bringing me joy right now? You know, what's bringing me joy is spending time with family. The Lunar New Year just happened and I got the chance to spend a lot of time with family and friends, got to see the, uh, Chinese New Year parade in San Francisco. And it's times like this that, you know, you kind of want to cherish that time as much as possible.

Gustavo Arellano: Rosanna, what about you?

Rosanna Xia: I mean, it's really hard to think about joy right now, but I will say that I've been feeling some renewed hope in humanity, just seeing how much of the world has come together to send help to Turkey and Syria. So my two cents here would be to add that thousands and thousands and thousands of people will still need help days and weeks and months from now, long after we've stopped talking about this earthquake as the news of the day. So don't forget to help even like a year or five years from now. I'll be back next month with a happier answer.

Gustavo Arellano: That, I think, that's very joyful. Just seeing, you know, people help, helping is always joy. Uh, humanity is always joy. Ron, Rosanna, thank you so much for this very special episode of Masters of Disasters.

Rosanna Xia: Thank you.

Rong-Gong Lin: Thank you.

Gustavo Arellano: Everyone out there. Please be safe.

Gustavo Arellano:  And that’s it for this episode of “The Times, Essential News From the L.A. Times.”

Ashlea Brown, Kasia Broussalian and David Toledo were the jefas on this episode. It was edited by Heba Elorbany and Mario Diaz mixed and mastered it.  

Our show is produced by Denise Guerra, Kasia Broussalian, David Toledo and Ashlea Brown. Our editorial assistants are Roberto Reyes and Nicolas Perez. Our fellow is Helen Li. Our engineers are Mario Diaz, Mark Nieto and Mike Heflin. Our executive producers are Jazmín Aguilera, Shani Hilton and Heba Elorbany. And our theme music is by Andrew Eapen. 

I'm Gustavo Arellano. We'll be back Wednesday with all the news and desmadre. Gracias!