Taylor Swift fans have joined the antitrust movement against Ticketmaster, giving it new life and power.
After Ticketmaster botched sales for Taylor Swift’s upcoming concert tour, her die-hard fans, known as Swifties, did more than just whine on social media. They took political action, calling their representatives in Congress and flagging their concerns to other lawmakers across the country. Some Swifties even filed a lawsuit.
This is far from the first time Ticketmaster and its parent company, Live Nation, have been accused of unfairly monopolizing the ticket market. And after another debacle last week that left Bad Bunny fans stranded outside his sold-out concert in Mexico City, it’s clear it won’t be the last time either.
Today, we look at whether the latest backlash is big enough to finally break Ticketmaster’s stranglehold on the live music market.
Read the full transcript here.
Host: Gustavo Arellano
Guests: L.A. Times reporter August Brown and Democratic Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota.
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Gustavo Arellano: When Taylor Swift announced that she was going to sell tickets for her U.S. tour next year, fans flooded Ticketmaster, the only place to buy them. The site, of course, crashed. And that left diehard fans without tickets… mad.
Clay Murray: People were like sobbing, crying, like really upset.
Gustavo: But that sadness and anger quickly turned into political action.
I don't really know many Taylor Swift songs, but one thing I do know about Swifties, don't cross 'em.
Last week, Clay Murray and over two dozen other Swifties who live across the US filed a lawsuit that accused Ticketmaster of fraud, price fixing and antitrust law violations.
Clay Murray: I definitely want there to be a change in how Ticketmaster runs.
Gustavo: Swift set a record for the most tickets ever sold in a single day on Nov. 15. So Ticketmaster says the fiasco was because of that. Because they weren't prepared for such a huge demand. On Monday, the company also sent emails to some fans in a second attempt to get tickets in the hands of those who pre-registered.
Social Media Clip: I literally screamed when I saw this email… There's still hope. That's, that's all I can say. Check your emails.
Gustavo: The Justice Department's already investigating and Congress is even gearing up for a hearing thanks to Sen. Amy Klobuchar. She's long been on an antitrust campaign against the company.
Sen. Amy Klobuchar: Ticketmaster: Big-time monopoly, every measure of the word.
Gustavo: This is far from the first time Ticketmaster has been accused of monopolizing the ticket market. And after another ticket sale debacle last week that left Bad Bunny fans stranded outside his sold-out concert in Mexico City. It's clear it won't be the last time, either.
But is the backlash big enough to finally break Ticketmaster’s stranglehold on the live music market?
I'm Gustavo Arellano. You're listening to The Times, Essential News from the L.A. Times. It's Wednesday, Dec. 14, 2022.
Today: How Taylor Swift fans have joined the antitrust movement against Ticketmaster, giving it new life and power.
Gustavo: My colleague August Brown is one of those Swifties you don't wanna cross. He covers pop music, the music industry and nightlife at the Los Angeles Times. So August, what's your favorite Taylor Swift song?
August Brown: Well, I'm gonna say on “Midnights,” probably “Anti-Hero’s” obviously one of her best.
“Maroon” has got some great vibes. “Snow on the Beach,” excellent collab. “Labyrinth,” I think is really anthemic. Uh, to go back a little further in her career, “Last Great American Dynasty” is some incredible storytelling.
“Delicate,” “Style” is one of my favorites too. “All Too Well.” Gotta throw that in there. And “Love Story” too. So obviously I've spent some time with her catalog.
Gustavo: I wish I knew any song. The only one I've ever heard is “You Belong to Me.” I know. I'm so basic. It's like not even funny,
August: You are channeling your inner Swiftie, even with that, so yes.
Gustavo: Ha. So.... were you able to score tickets to Taylor Swift's concert or no?
August: You know, I have been lucky enough to see her several times over the years. I knew this was gonna be an absolute Mad Max at best occasion to get tickets. I thought I would, you know, give my lone seat in the bleachers back to someone that really needed it after a few long years away.
Gustavo: Yeah, there was just so much pent-up demand to see Taylor perform since she hasn't been able to tour because of the pandemic…
August: So during the pandemic, a lot of artists had trouble staying engaged with their fans for obvious reasons, and Taylor was not among them. She came out with a bunch of new material, you know, “Folklore” won the Grammy for album of the year. She re-released some old back catalog albums and she most recently came out with “Midnights,” which is, you know, a huge hit in her career, set some single-day sales records, and she essentially just has a ton of new material that fans have been really starving to hear on the road. And when she comes back to SoFi and comes out on this tour, this will be probably the biggest thing she's ever done in her career as far as, you know, demand plus new material, plus revisiting old things. But this is gonna be just a landmark show for one of the most devoted fan bases in all of pop music.
Gustavo: Yeah. Fans are mad. We talked to one of them, Clay Murray. He's one of the Swifties who's part of this lawsuit against Ticketmaster. And he said trying to buy tickets felt like being in “Hunger Games.”
Clay Murray: There was such an anxiety to get tickets because everyone had an instinctive feeling that this was going to be like “The Hunger Games.” Which it basically was.
Gustavo: So August, what were some of the things you saw your fellow fans say on social media about this whole ordeal?
August: Well, if there's anything that Swifties love, it is to unpack a rich text full of mystery and possibility, and, nothing will meet that need like antitrust law violations for them. People have been griping about Ticketmaster and LiveNation for a very long time, but this was the biggest, most high-profile example of a lot of things happening at once that led to some extremely frustrated fans.
Social Media Clip: I literally feel like I'm about to burst into tears right now. I have been a fan of Taylor's since her very first album, and I was so excited to go to this tour. I've actually never gotten to go to one of her concerts before. I'm truly just so disappointed and I don't even know how to react.
August: Ticketmaster had asked for fans to do a lot. It’s not just as simple as, you know, showing up and buying a ticket online. You know, you have to do things to prove that you're a genuine human that has invested a lot of time and emotional capital into being a real fan. And those get you points in their verified fan system to get you – not even to the front of the line, but just in line at all. And you know, obviously this is, you know, Swifties’ favorite artist, they're prepared to move hell and high water to get in line for this. I think a lot of them knew it was gonna be some work and some degree of chaos, but you know, you were seeing fans were online for eight, 10 hours being told that they had a place in line and they just waited, you know, with a hair trigger hovering over the “enter” key to get in there and then to find out that they didn't actually get it, but they were instantly going on sale from bots for tens of thousands of dollars minutes later, I think really frustrated people that were told, if you do everything right and put the work in, you will be able to get a ticket. But the big thing that surprised me is how quickly Swifties turned to government policy, antitrust legislation and lawsuits in this regard. It wasn’t just, you know, being mad online. A lot of them were really ready to take action immediately: call their congresspeople, call their senator, explore this class-action lawsuit. And you know, if you know Swifties, it's no coincidence that once they get a villain in place, they will go pursue it to the ends of the Earth. I think it's kind of exciting that a lot of them suddenly are getting real versed on antitrust regulation as they pursue this, I think that’s…they've made a powerful ally unlike anything since the union eras of yore.
Gustavo: So what are the fans asking for in this lawsuit?
August: Well, the suit is from 26 Taylor Swift fans from 13 states. They filed a lawsuit against Live Nation and Ticketmaster in L.A. County, and they are accusing Ticketmaster of violating the California Cartwright Act and the California Unfair Competition Law, which came up during the verified fan presale for the big stadium tour. The plaintiffs are seeking fines of $2,500 per violation of those acts, and they're claiming that Live Nation and Ticketmaster engaged in fraud, price fixing, antitrust violations, all while trying to sell advance tickets to this tour. This has been something that's come up for Ticketmaster before and several other shows, but this is probably the highest-profile example of a lot of the antitrust issues and unfair consumer practices that have caught the eye of some pretty high-profile lawmakers in the meantime.
Gustavo: I knew this Ticketmaster backlash was real when a friend of mine who's a labor organizer, so totally political, and she was celebrating her fellow Swifties, getting all political, and I'm like, damn, I didn't know you were a Swiftie. And you know: People not being able to buy tickets. It happens. Happens all the time. So what is it about Swifties that got them into wanting to do this and being so vocal about it to the point of a lawsuit?
August: Well, if we're gonna connect this to the catalog, I think the themes of being kind of wronged and getting retribution are a major theme of Swift's songwriting. And now that Swifties have a very clear and very, let's just say, not especially sympathetic villain in LiveNation and Ticketmaster, they're very organized online and are very dedicated to a cause of righting wrongs that they see themselves pointing towards. And this is a big broad target to rise up and fight against. Fortunately they have some lawmakers that feel the same. And I think the kind of combination of the intensity, the size and devotion of the fanbase, plus a real clear path forward through the courts and through legislation in the Justice Department. We're having a good time laughing about this, but this is possibly the most genuine threat that the merger of Live Nation and Ticketmaster has faced since the consent decree back in 2010.
Gustavo: So this consent decree… This is what allowed LiveNation and Ticketmaster to merge? How did they get away with it?
August: So, back in the late 2000s when Live Nation wanted to merge with Ticketmaster, you know, they used to be two different companies and their argument was that they could provide, you know, the cleanest, most vertically integrated format for selling fans tickets to their own shows. This obviously raised some ire over at the Justice Department and within Congress because this would create, you know, one mega company that controlled every aspect of a huge portion of the concert industry in America. And so the Justice Department said that we will allow you to merge if you fall under this consent decree, which said you have to avoid some anti-consumer practices and make sure that you're delivering fans a quality product that actually gets tickets to highly desirable shows in the hands of fans that want it, and that you're not just using this as a way to grift people. And it set up some rules essentially around how much they're able to make off of the secondary market.
Gustavo: Yeah and I remember back in the nineties is when I first heard about Ticketmaster getting hell for being a monopoly. Back then it was Pearl Jam complaining about many of the same things that Swifties are right now. And the band testified before Congress.
Archival News Clip: Our band, which is concerned about keeping the price of its tickets low, will almost always be in conflict with Ticketmaster, which has every incentive to try to find ways to increase the price of the tickets it sells.
Gustavo: So what ended up happening with that? Cause Pearl Jam's still huge, but Ticketmaster's still huge as well.
August: Yeah, that was definitely a kind of peak 90s MTV moment of fighting back against the man. That led to the creation of Coachella in its own way because Pearl Jam, when they were trying to find non-Ticketmaster venues that could accommodate their tour, they ended up having to go out to the Empire Polo Club in Indio to book their show there. And while the tour had its own set of difficulties, it did prove that that was a nice site to hold concerts. And a few years later, Paul Tollett and GoldenVoice decided to throw Coachella out there. So that was one of the ancillary effects of that tour. But in the meantime it did prove that a high-profile band can take this seriously and try to form other alternatives. But it also showed how hard that is when you're dealing with a multibillion-dollar company that now is much more entrenched in the whole apparatus of booking and selling tickets than even they were back then. So, however bad Eddie Vedder thought it was in the 90s, it's 10 times worse now.
Gustavo: How do you see things playing out different this time?
August: Well, the lawsuit, I think it has a good chance of making a strong argument. This was a real breakdown of the only thing Ticketmaster is supposed to be good at, which is selling tickets to fans. Swifties, what they're alleging here is that Ticketmaster sold them the promise of tickets on false pretenses and sucked a lot of time, a lot of energy, and broke a lot of hearts. But I think where Ticketmaster's really gonna come up against some trouble is they are in the laser sights of the Justice Department and some of the most high-profile congresspeople on this issue. You know, Klobuchar led the effort, filing complaints with the Justice Department, sending letters to them since 2019 about this issue, even before all this. And now when I interviewed her, she said that there's legislation coming down the pipe to address some of the issues at stake. And I think, because the consent decree is under the purview of the Justice Department, it can also be unwound if they're proved to be violating it. If Swifties are hoping for a clean kill shot here, that's probably the way it'll go, is if it turns out that they've been violating the consent decree enough that the Justice Department could unwind the merger.
Gustavo: August. Thank you so much for this conversation, and I hope you get some tickets.
August: Thank you. I'm looking forward to seeing her on the next round. Thanks, man.
Gustavo: After the break, Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar tells us her plan to take on Ticketmaster and reveals her favorite Taylor Swift song.
Gustavo: One person who's been leading a long-running campaign against Ticketmaster is Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar. She leads the Senate Judiciary Committee on Competition Policy, Antitrust and Consumer Rights. Senator, welcome to The Times.
Sen. Amy Klobuchar: Thanks, Gustavo. It's just great to be on.
Gustavo: I imagine as a politician, the type of mobilization that Taylor Swift fans have shown against Ticketmaster, it's the type of civic engagement you dream about. I mean, they've written to their state attorneys general, they've contacted the Federal Trade Commission, now they're suing Ticketmaster parent Live Nation Entertainment with a long list of allegations including unlawful and deceptive conduct. Do you think they have a strong case?
Amy: I do, and you are right. It is welcome to have Taylor Swift fans as well as other music and theater fans on our side. When you look back through history, when there were changes to antitrust laws cause of too much consolidation, whether it was rail trusts or you name it, it was farmers with pitchforks in the middle of Nebraska that said, enough we’re captured by these monopolies. Well, guess what? Now it's Taylor Swift fans. So that's fine because we need to update our antitrust laws. We need to put more resources into the agencies that enforce them, like the FTC and the Justice Department. So there's a lot of practical things we can do. But I love the thought of making antitrust cool again, and if this is how we do it, fine by me.
Gustavo: Ticketmaster has of course already apologized to fans, explaining that there was unprecedented demand that they weren't expecting. Here's a quick quote: “The demand for tickets to Taylor's tour broke records and parts of our website.” How does their response sit with you?
Amy: Ha. Well, first of all, I think just about everyone knows that she's a mega superstar, so I think you could have anticipated this. Secondly, this has happened before. Other, whether it's bigger acts, smaller acts, have had issues, and the number one issue of course is high prices with fees that are hidden and way too much money for people. When you have no competition, that's what happens. Second problem, which we saw here with the Swift concert: disruption to the platforms and making it very difficult, with the system, to even get the tickets. And then the final thing, which is a little more subtle, but it's a big, big problem, is that we've got so much consolidation. When Live Nation and Ticketmaster merged in 2010, they did it under something called a consent decree. Basically if venue operators don't use Ticketmaster as their primary ticket service, Live Nation’s concert promotion business may not book the best shows at the venues. So you've got this gigantic conglomeration now that is basically owning venues in many jurisdictions that compete with independent venues. You've got this combination of the ticketing and the promoting with Ticketmaster and Live Nation. So all of this, of course, leads to the fact that 70% of tickets for major concert venues in the U.S. are sold through Ticketmaster.
Gustavo: Yeah, that 2010 Department of Justice consent decree was supposed to force Ticketmaster to divest some of its assets to be able to allow other competitors to rise up. So how did Ticketmaster basically emerge unscathed from that?
Amy: Well, first of all, I'm sure there's a lot of people wishing they had done more back then. But we are where we are. And so what happened is they had this consent decree that basically said that they agreed to resolve the Justice Department's antitrust concerns by not using their market power to force venues to use Ticketmaster. So basically, Live Nation says we'll do our stuff. We are combined, but we'll do our stuff, Ticketmaster does theirs, and we're not gonna force them to use Ticketmaster. Well, guess what? According to the Justice Department, over the course of years, Live Nation executives retaliated against or threatened venues across the U.S. in violation of the consent decree through the time period of 2012 to 2019. So in 2019, Department goes to court, gets the consent decree extended for five years. Appoints an independent monitor, says there'll be damages, million dollars in damages, when these violations occur. So what we know now is that the Justice Department has said that they are in the middle of an investigation. And because they know what should work with the consent decree isn't working, we are gonna have a hearing in the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, and we are also looking at doing legislation, specific to the ticket industry, on a bipartisan basis.
Gustavo: Yeah. You along with Sen. Mike Lee from Utah are gonna have these hearings on competition, specifically in the ticketing industry. What answers are you seeking?
Amy: We want to know exactly what's happening here and what went wrong. And one of the reasons you have these hearings – well, there's two reasons. The first is, there's an ongoing Justice investigation. These witnesses are under oath and we are now working to schedule the hearing. We also ask Ticketmaster a series of questions in writing. We get that information that's helpful, that informs the Justice Department. The second reason you want these hearings is that we then are able to get information to help us pass legislation. One of the ways we're passing this merger fee bill, I predict by the end of the year, to increase merger fees for major mega mergers is because we have gotten a lot of information from hearings, from grocery mergers, with Krogers and Albertsons to what we're seeing with tech, with Google and Amazon and Facebook, and Apple and the like. So that's our argument. And these hearings have been really important. Mike and I, he's a conservative Republican as you know, but we have worked together really well and this is a bipartisan hearing we'll be having.
Gustavo: Finally, senator, what's your favorite Taylor Swift song and why?
Amy: Let's see. OK. I'm thinking of my workplace right now as I head into the next two weeks. “I Knew You Were Trouble.” “I Knew You Were Trouble” because a lot of the people I work with are a bit of trouble, right? What's the words? “I knew you were trouble when you walked in.
“So shame on me now…”
Gustavo: Oh my God, you're cooler than me because I know none of this. Sen. Klobuchar, thank you so much for this conversation.
Amy: It was really great and, uh, look forward to seeing you in person soon.
Gustavo: And that's it for this episode of The Times: Essential News from The L.A. Times. Denise Guerra and Kinsee Morlan were the jefas on this episode. It was edited by Heba Elorbany and mixed and mastered by Mario Diaz.
Our show is produced by Denise Guerra, Kasia Broussalian, David Toledo and Ashlea Brown. Our editorial assistants are Roberto Reyes and Nicolas Perez. Our fellow is Helen Li. Our engineers are Mario Diaz, Mark Nieto and Mike Heflin. Our editor is Kinsee Morlan. Our executive producers are Jazmín Aguilera, Shani Hilton and Heba Elorbany. And our theme music is by Andrew Eapen.
I'm Gustavo Arellano. We'll be back Friday with all the news and desmadre. Gracias.